Monday, July 2, 2012

Updated! Trading Strategies


As the Market Changes, so does the value of the cards...

Last Updated: 7-2-12
Lots of changes! If you have read this before, read it again.


Here are the Trading Rules of Thumb that I and others believe to be most fair for both parties:


Acceptable Card Combos for Cards Different in Rarity


UE Rares - Un Maxed: Your Choice of the Following...
• 5HN UE Cards
• 5 FF HN - Maxed (Bc if they are HN in Final Form, they started off as Normal)

UE Rares - Maxed (NOT EVO MAXED CARDS): Your Choice of the Following...
• 5HN UE Cards - Maxed 
UE High Rares - Un Maxed : Your Choice of the Following...
• 7 UE Rare Cards
• 3 UE Rare Cards + 3 UE Rare Cards - Maxed 
UE High Rares - Maxed (NOT EVO MAXED CARDS): Your Choice of the Following...
• 2 UE Rare Cards - Maxed + 5 UE Rare Cards
• 8 UE Rare Cards 
UE Super Rares - Un Maxed: Your Choice of the Following...
• 5 UE HR - Max Cards
• 6-7 UE HR Cards 
SS Rares: I would go case by case on this one, since some are drastically different than others
Max Evo Cards: This depends so much on what the card is and how many times it was maxed evo's and when. There's no way I could list each combination here.  If you have a specific trade in mind with one of these, I will be more than happy to help.


Holy Powder & Cure Water = Cards...

Changed 7-2 to my personal opinion based on the current market:
These are averages and are not the rule, everyone is entitled to trade their cards for any amount of HP or Cw as they like. At the moment, Cure water is being sold at 2-3 per HP. Especially with Holy Wars Coming Up its not going to be as high.   
Only posting rares and up
usually these would be the ratios: 

• Rare: = 3hp or 5cw (the more popular/useful rares can go for 4hp or 4cw.) 
• High Rare**: 15-70hp ( usually its 30 but again it all depends on how popular/useful the card is, Some of the new HRs like Trow Elf easily go for 70) 
• Super Rare: 80-150hp this is where things get interesting. (it could be as low as 50 items or 80+ depending on the demand of the card and who is offering the trade.) 
• Super Super Rare*: 100-250+ hp (its not often that you would find someone trading a SSR for only HP but if you do expect to pay a great deal.)
* Un-Evo-able Treasure Cards 
(Verdandi, Phoenix, Alluring Angel, Pegasus Knight, Dragon Rider, Guivre, Ghost Rider, Scribe)- 
Whatever their level of rarity in their FF is, move it down one level down for Treasure Cards.  


* I know that in my trade offers, I offer more for these items, but that is bc I can afford to pay more bc those are cards that I want at the moment. Don't be afraid to do the same if it something you really want.


Another piece of advice: If someone took the time to to max each level of the card (Be Sure to Check this Evo Page to Make Sure it was Done Properly) Plan on giving them an additional 5 items for every level of rarity the card currently is (no lowering on this for different cards) ex. Rare Max out = 5 more hp or cw, SSR = 40 



*NEW* Items for Invite Cards


When it comes to Invite Cards (like the Dark Knights), the rules change.  Why these fully evo cards are considered SSR is beyond me! Their final form skill is the same as a card that finishes as an SS card, but their attack and def are so far behind this. Here is my opinion of what each is worth as of today:
Also, where it says hp below, it can be substituted for cw in some cases, but it depends on the trader. Because cw is more available after every boss battle and hp is not, some traders may believe that hp is more valuable. The closer you are to Holy Wars, the more value hp will have.  Whereas, the closer you are to a quest event, the closer the value of hp and cw will have in the marketplace.


Expired Invite Cards:
Nobunaga - 
• Un-Evo'd worth 15-20hp,  • Final Form Non Maxed before Evo (you'll know bc it will have 12.6k attack) is worth 50-60hp• FF Fully Maxed before each evo using 4 cards total (a little over 14k attack) is worth 65-80hp
• FF Fully Maxed before each evo using more than 4 cards (extremely rare!) is worth around 80-100hp
Princess Angel -
• UE worth 5-10hp• FF Non Maxed (atk & def around 9k) is worth about 20-30hp (This is lowest attack & def of the invite cards - don't over pay for it  • FF Fully Maxed before each evo is only worth maybe about 25-35hp, such a minor difference though 
Valkyrie Hild -
This one is definitely worth these prices, now that it is expired. People may object to these prices at first, but trust me you will get this if you hold onto them, The only reason they worth this much from the start is bc of their abundance from the emulators 
• UE worth 15-20hp Buy these cheap now, why their prices are low
• FF Non Maxed before evo (atk around 12.5k) is worth about 40-55hp
• FF Fully Maxed before each evo using 4 cards total (a little over 13k attack) is worth 55-70hp• FF Fully Maxed before each evo using more than 4 cards is worth around 70-90hp

Current Invite Card:

Dark Knight Luciella -
• UE worth 3-5hp (has gone down because it has become more abundant)
• FF Non Maxed before evo (atk around 11k) is worth 25-30hp
• FF Fully Maxed before each evo using 4 cards total (a little over 12k attack) is worth 45-55hp • FF Fully Maxed before each evo using more than 4 cards (Attack around 13k and higher) is worth around 60-75hp

Feeder Cards & Items = Rupies


• Cure Water & Holy Powder are equal to $25k - $50k each 
• Magic Circle are equal to $10k each 
• Feeder Cards are Normal or High Normal Cards without Skills (Unless Specifically Mentioned "With Skills) - Feeders normally go for $5-$10k each (10k only for High Normal or High Power) 
• HN Feeders with Skills - $10-$15k depending on whose paying. Don't over pay on these! Anything higher is not a good deal


Specialized Cards


• Angel Queen: This card increases leveling during the enhancement process (about 4 levels on avg) I would say this card is worth approx. - 2 hp or 4 cw
• Devil Queen: This card increases chance of skill level increase (50% per each one used)
I would say this card is worth approx. - 7-10 hp  
• Golden Dragon: This card you sell back to the game for $30k, I would say it is worth that and that alone, sell it immediately and get the cash and have one less card taking up space in your deck

Down Trading 


Åke said...
Hi,
I have a clean Sukteh SR and I am looking to trade down so that I can get a good ATK deck. What would a fair and good trade be? I am playing man and was wondering what best deal would be for me.
Any hint advice would be good.

Zuks said...
Great Question!
No matter what anyone tells you, it is smart to trade down for your SR and SS single cards, Why? Bc the chances of you being able to make trades or buy 10,000 rage medals to get more of that card are slim to none.
So it depends on how new you are. If you want an almost full starter deck of cards, you can get it with the Sukteh or any other SR. What you can ask for is 2-3 sets of evo'd HR cards (Those are rare cards that have been evo'd to make a high rare).
-or-
If You just need one good card in your deck you can ask for an Evo'd SR (card that was evo'd using 4 High Rares). But this depends on the card, how much power it uses, & its skill. Also Max Evo's may be harder to get with single SRs bc normally ppl that you are trading are already using them in their deck and one SR wont replace that unless they have 3 others that are the same as yours.
Hope this Helps!





Smart Buys

There's something that's been bothering me lately about the cards with the Self Atk/Def boost getting a bad wrap. Cards like Hermes & Yinglong. A lot of people are asking,

"Why do I want these cards, if they only raise themselves? Why not an attack all skill? That's better after all"

No no no! You're so very mistaken.

Let's go back to the skill chart


New Chart from Japanese Wiki, Translated by US Wiki Updated 7-28-12


Let's look at some of the cards in my deck.
Hermes skill is great boost its attack and def, which is right around 30% (big is def 20% and massive is 40 for self atk and def)

So let's take Hermes skill bonus
attack: 19072 x 30% = 5722 skill bonus
And def: 18392 x 30% = 5499 skill bonus

The average person that is level 60 has a deck of each card being approximately 13000 atk & def.

13000 x 5 = 65000 total avg attack without boosts.

Valk's gods attack skill is 15% to all gods.

So let's say you have all god cards at around 13k average attack, that's 65000 avg attack x 15% boosts = 9750, but again you would have to have all god cards! Now before you get hasty and say that's still higher than it is with Hermes, I'll correct you.

Hermes boost is for attack and def! So if we added those two Hermes boost together 5722 + 5499 = 11221! Which beats Valkyrie. And more suitable most other SS RARE Evo bonuses with the single realm attack (or just defense) boost.

Now let's take another Evo SS RARE, but with an attack all boost. Nobunaga has attack boost all but only 10% for each card. 4max Nobu is at 13k, if u have 4 other cards around the same (totaling an average of 65000), it would be a 6500 bonus. But again this bonus is only in attack.
Now what do you do with this information? You start trading smart! I was able to get my 2 of my Hermes from two separate people using the much over rated card Michael with a Great attack all boost. Most people who have fully Evo maxed Mike in their decks have an average deck with an attack of 16500 per card. So that's 16500 x 5 cards = 82500. So 10% of that is 8250. But again this is only in attack! Compared to Hermes which gives your deck a total boost of 11221 total between both decks.

Further tests:

First proof of Hermes being 30%...


Putting it up against Valk:

A 4-6 card max Valk is approximately 13.6k. So that's 2040 boost with its 15%, so if you have 5 of these in your attack deck, that would be a 10200 boost on top of 68000. Totaling a total attack of 78,200 with one hild going off

Now lets look at Hermes, 4-6 max attack is 19k, So that totals 95,000. One card going off is 5722. Totaling a total attack of 100,772.


Now Mike:

If you had a 5 Mike Deck
17800 per mike x 5 = 89,000 + 1 card going off 10% boost on all = 97,900 still lower than hermes




39 comments:

ChaosCrusader said...

Hey there, while this is a pretty helpful article, there are a few things I'd like to take issue with. First, in the current market, hp is not valued as equal to cw. Thus, saying that the hp:cw ratio is 1:1 is almost wishful thinking. You may want to clarify that most people place more worth on hp than they do cw. (except, of course, during events)it is also highly unlikely that you will find yourself buying hp at 45/55k, so you may want to review that section. Also, your information on Knight Luci is a mite outdated, in my opinion. Her value's dropped quite far recently due to the passing of "new card hype". Her current market price, if I'm not mistaken, falls closer to the range of 4-5hp.

Another rather big issue that I have with your post is your claim that "Hermes boost is for attack and def! So if we added those two Hermes boost together 5722 + 5499 = 11221!" While this is true, this statement is rather flawed, since only 1 of the values matter in any battle. You will never have an opportunity to have a 5722 + 5499 boost in a single battle. Thus, for all intents and purposes, you cannot take that as a larger boost. In other words, Hermes should only count as a 5722 boost to attack OR a 5499 boost to defence, not both together. So, in terms of usefulness when attacking, it gets easily outdone by Valk. In defending, on the other hand, it's boost is a mite more useful. However, it is outshone by other pure defence cards such as Eris, and it's definitely outshone by Fairy Princess (but then again,which GOD SR isn't?) Just thought I'd point this out, that it's a fallacy to claim that the boost Hermes gives is 11221.

Cheers,
PacisQuodVirtus

Zuks said...

Although, I appreciate your point of view, on challenging me on issues. You have brought up some very valid points that I would like to clarify with further explanation.

As far as hp being more valuable than cw goes, I will agree that some may think so, depending on the trader. During the time of Holy Wars, you are correct. Cw will have little value right before or after this event. But during the duration of event quests (much like the one coming up), CW becomes more in demand. However, given the fact that CW is always available after a boss battle and hp is not, I will change this section accordingly.

As far as Luci goes, there have been several instances this week, that I have sold her for that amount. I refuse to drop Luci down to the 5hp price that I was selling a hild at, because, she is way more valuable. As stated as disclaimer when you first began reading this, these are in fact MY OPINIONS. Do I think her value will drop to around 4-5hp? Perhaps, depending on the emulators. However, RoB is finally taking steps to keep a better eye on the influx of the referral bonus, So we shall see.

With Regards to Hermes, you can't treat that card as a solely attack nor only defense card because you're not buying two separate cards. With regards to Valkyrie comment, lets put that to the test.

A 4card max Valk is approximately 13.6k. So that's 2040 boost with its 15%, so if you have 5 of these in your attack deck, that would be a 10200 boost on top of 68000. Totaling a total attack of 78,200 with one hild going off

Now lets look at Hermes, 4 card max attack is 19k, So that totals 95,000. One card going off is 5722. Totaling a total attack of 100,772. I fail to see how that is not more than Valkyrie.

I can waiver to your side on the hp/cw issue. However with regards to Hermes, I firmly stand tall with my previous opinion.

Adam Balm said...

Very good point with Valkyrie comment Zuks! But until u brought this to my attention, I have to admit I thought the same way as Pacis. You've swayed me though. I've been doing some further calculations with mix god decks where it isn't just Valk or isn't just Hermes. These calculations were with just those two skills going off and Bc Valk's attack is so much lower than Hermes, Hermes deck seems to come out on top. So I'm guessing when a skill isn't as helpful, Rob makes up for it with giving it a larger attack or def.

Adam Balm said...

U R so right about the FP! All others fail in comparison. Do either u or zuks know if there is a Massive Boost to all Gods attack skill coming out? I looked under God's card and Skill info but didn't see one as of yet. Great blog though Zuks! Appreciate all your work!

ChaosCrusader said...

Well, I do see your point. My main beef with your Hermes article was that the way you worded your explanation might have caused newer players to believe that they were getting a total boost of 11221, rather than a boost of 5722 when attacking and a boost of 5499 when defending (I hope I'm making sense). This might cause them to believe that they would get a 11221 boost when attacking, which would be false information. Rather than showing how the two boosts together are worth more than Valk's, you may want to word it such that the emphasis is more on the fact that Hermes is more versatile than Valk. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say, it's 2am here and I'm nodding off.

Also, on a separate note, can't wait for Legend Gabriel. Absolute boost to Gods ATK/DEF <3<3<3

Zuks said...

Ty Adam & yes there is a card called SS Andromeda that will be released in an event called the 7 constellations of Winter. This card has a Massive Boost to God Card's Attack & Defense. But that is the only card with a Massive version of the FP or the God Version of the upcoming Demon SS Card: Dark Dragoon, from the next event. However, there is not a card that has a massive god only attack boost as of yet (at least that I'm aware of ;), but I can't wait until there is because it's percentage is going to be insane! It's kind of unfair when you think about the demons getting Cerberus and now the Dark Dragoon. They could think about the gods. lol

There is the Quilin though, that has a massive boost to all Gods Def. but alas no massive gods only attack

Zuks said...

"Well, I do see your point. My main beef with your Hermes article was that the way you worded your explanation might have caused newer players to believe that they were getting a total boost of 11221, rather than a boost of 5722 when attacking and a boost of 5499 when defending (I hope I'm making sense). This might cause them to believe that they would get a 11221 boost when attacking, which would be false information. Rather than showing how the two boosts together are worth more than Valk's, you may want to word it such that the emphasis is more on the fact that Hermes is more versatile than Valk. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say, it's 2am here and I'm nodding off.

Also, on a separate note, can't wait for Legend Gabriel. Absolute boost to Gods ATK/DEF <3<3<3"

Np, I can see how that can be misconstrued. But yes, Legend Gabriel! Great Card! Wait that remind me I forgot about the Legend Cards! Adam to answer your earlier question there is one card with a Massive Attack Boost to all Gods called Shiva. But it is in the Legend Category because it's skill percentage is so much larger than that of Andromeda who has Massive Boost to Atk & Def of Gods. But again this is of things yet to come.

Adam Balm said...

Oh that's whats up right there. Hey noticed you changed your background pic to the site. Who is that? Looks like Lance, but I see 5 circles at the bottom.

Zuks said...

It's the stage 5 evolved Lance. In the Japanese Version, Certain cards can be enhanced up to 5 levels. Actually the Bahamut Background you see when your game is starting up, is the 5th stage Evo image in the game.

Eric Striegel said...

I am extremely concerned with the value of these cards and their hp ratios. Now that the devs have cut the issuance of hps in quest to 'personal' we as a customer base are saying we will pay $150 for a card i cant touch or burn? Lets bring the value of these cards down to reality. One HP bought in store is 99 cents. Therefore each Hp you attach to a card has a value of $1. I recently spoke with a player who wanted 800 hps for a full Mike. So using this principal one would pay $800 for a single card. This game needs to be brought back down to reality. No paper card game has had that type of value off of a 1-2 year old sets. We as consumers are getting the casino treatment and the devs are laughing all the way to the bank. I know i am not theonly player out there that sees the absurdity of clamoring after ELECTRONIC cards. Just my two cents

Eric Striegel said...

I am extremely concerned with the value of these cards and their hp ratios. Now that the devs have cut the issuance of hps in quest to 'personal' we as a customer base are saying we will pay $150 for a card i cant touch or burn? Lets bring the value of these cards down to reality. One HP bought in store is 99 cents. Therefore each Hp you attach to a card has a value of $1. I recently spoke with a player who wanted 800 hps for a full Mike. So using this principal one would pay $800 for a single card. This game needs to be brought back down to reality. No paper card game has had that type of value off of a 1-2 year old sets. We as consumers are getting the casino treatment and the devs are laughing all the way to the bank. I know i am not theonly player out there that sees the absurdity of clamoring after ELECTRONIC cards. Just my two cents

Eric Striegel said...

My in game name is BruceWayneDK btw

Zuks said...

Eric! U r so right!! Idk if u read this section before I updated it, but the amount of hp required for HRs & up has since tripled. And that was only a month ago! But truth be told, as long as ppl are willing to pay these prices, they'll only continue to inflate. Hopefully now that you can't gain tradable hp till level 10 will cut out the inflation

Zuks said...

Since we both know the real reason of the influx is due to the emulators.

Zuks said...

Actually never mind about going till level 10. These personal CWs and HP r popping up after level 10 also. Hopefully the prices will go down now.

Christopher Satkowski said...

Someone is offering me an 8MAX Valk for my Sutekh. Is this a fair trade or should I be getting more? Thanks.

Zuks said...

for sukteh i would ask for more. at least a combo of 25 hp or cw

Zuks said...

also make sure its actually an 8 ,max valk.. should have about 14k atk

Christopher Satkowski said...

Heh. Just got a few offers. A clean Hermes + 5 HP or a flat 200 HP.

kmfnj said...

@Zuks - Let me start by saying this is an excellent blog and I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into providing quality RoB info!

I'm commenting because I have concern that translated skill chart numbers are inaccurate. I've only been playing for a week or two, and I've been crawling the interwebs for good, accurate information... However, I'm wary of stuff like this that's been translated since I have noticed discrepancies between the US and JP versions. My primary example was witnessed firsthand: the Archive bonus that supposedly takes 3 seconds off your stamina recharge in the JP version actually only takes ONE second off in the US version.

So... with that in mind, what are your thoughts on this in relation to the skill chart -- that is -- how is it possible to know what any of the stat boosts actually are, if there are known differences between the two versions of the game? Or do you have anything else to back up this info?

Again, many thanks for sharing your experience and tips! :)

Zuks said...

My pleasure! and wouldn't it be nice if we actually got a 3 second archive bonus per level! Suddenly only being level 3 on the max bonus, doesn't seem so bad.

In answer to your earlier question, yes the skill chart is correct. I and numerous other people have tested it throughout various decks. We made sure to tests these decks with other boosts as well as alone. This way non skill boosts, such as order bonuses (Attack/Def leader & Order Realm Boost), Realm Bonuses (2% bonus on cards in your realm), Morale Raised through Victory Bonus (10% raise for 10 mins after victory) and any others that I'm forgetting at the moment while answering this question, were all taken into consideration. All the boosts are taken from each cards base attack/def and added together cumulatively. I will note in some cases the boosts came close to something like 19.4% when the chart says 20%. But overall the chart is a great guideline and indeed correct for this version of the game.

kmfnj said...

Okay, I think that makes a bit more sense now. Thank you very much for your answer! The only other thing that's confusing me about the chart is the % signs that do not indicate a number, such as the first one: Small/1-Type/ATK/Increase -- What does the lone % sign there indicate? Is it "One percent", "Zero percent", or "Unknown"? (If it's zero I wish they would've just put a dash or something!)

Inimari said...

Zuks, i just wanted to let you know your blog is awsome. It really helped me understand the game a lot more.

I do have a question regarding prices on Rares.
I'm currenty lvl 48 a like over half of my card inventory is filled with rare cards i don't use so im trying to sell most of them.

I do have quite a lot of EVO's HN to Rare, but i dont know what to do with them, should i use them for enhancing?

And secondly your chart up here for prices made it a bit more clear what i can ask for a rare, i made myself a list what i would want to have for my cards. Some i will let for 2hp others for 3hp but how much should i ask for a MAX enhanched Kratos/Garmr or Agni in UE state?

Thank you for your time.

My ingame name is: Inimari

Jc Pritchard said...

What would you say a 2nd form Hild enhanced to lvl 8 is worth?

Zuks said...

Inimari - Rares even if max enhanced are still usually only worth 3hp. U can try 4 but I doubt u will get it with an experienced player.

Zuks said...

J.C. I would say the same price as 2 hilds. I've sold a few this week for 10hp each. Only have one left. Some people try to lowball me, but they're expired and worth more now.

Steve Donahue said...

I have a join question I have a max who/enhanced Ancient elf, how many SR cards could I request for a fair trade? I'm new and just started two weeks ago and don't want to be low balled on this card because I got it and other cards in a trade for a non evo bahamut. thanks for the help in advance.

Zuks said...

That's actually not a high SR. If u could get 3 good Hrs for it, that would be great. Or around 70hp.

Michael said...

Thanks great article. I'm new to RoB and I'm really enjoying it. I'm trying to understand the value of teh cards and do not want to be ripped off in trades. I have been offered 2 rares (Reshef, Elder Vampire) and a high normal (Warrior)for 5 HP and 2 CW. Also I have been offered yinlong (rare) for high gunner (rare). Are these fair trades? On a side note do you have any advice for a beginner on how to build and acquire cards for their deck?

Steve Donahue said...

My advice would be to stay away from the legend booster packs, there not worth it. I spent $500 and on got 1 Sr, 1 SSR, and 1 legend card.

MoonlitMystery said...
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MoonlitMystery said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zuks said...

@ Michael: there's no quick trick or single golden rule for making out big on trades. Like the stock market, u need to sell when cards r at high value and gather them when they're low. The only way you can acquire this expertise is to watch and Learn. Best place to watch is the supports of whoever is in the legend spot for battle ranking. Like the ticker at the NYSE, that page is always beaming with current trade stats. So that would be a good place to start. Also try the classifieds sections of this blog from the menu header above. Take a look at what trades r being made and how ppl r going about making them.

MoonlitMystery said...

Aloha! :) I just got a hold of 5 clean hilds. should I try to sell them now? turn them into its final form? or could they translate to a super cool card trade (if so, what would u suggest)?

DanielC said...

Hi. My IGN is CrossXcalibur. I wanted to ask a quick question regarding cw values with the upcoming event. I have about 300 cw's and was hoping that demand would increase their value to a point that I could flip them for hp. What is the usual trade value during a cw heavy event to hp. I have noticed that some are already beginning to trade for a flat 1:1. Will they go up from that? Thanks!!!

Arbiter said...

hey i must say thanks for the info but as to prices its all relevant. Everything especially on the cards for example a sutekh can go for 275+ so a 8 max valk would need more like 150 hp to make that deal fair. In reality i say that if your a new player, do your research on the card your buying like search on google and especially look on forums to see the prices of people selling and buying that certain cards. this also helps for hp:cw ratios. Although this is a very great attempt to create a general idea of trading rules, there are just too many variables when it comes to cards and items to make such general claims. For example Devil Queens are currently on the market for 30-5o hp, i have seen various people BUYING at this price. The market is always changing so its best to keep up and searching on trading forums is like being at wall street and provides the most accurate values. oh and personally if your down trading id sell for hp and then just buy the hrs and evo them yourself, its cheaper and you get more. ign: arbiter063
nice job though keep it up

Arbiter said...

oh and the lowest ssr goes for 250+ and thats if your luck xD so id fix that ssr range of 100-250+ because its really more like 250-800+ xD
and that statment of a sutekh being worth 2-3 evod hrs is really misleading to new players because that is a huge rip off

Arbiter said...

lucky*

Zuks said...

This chart is pretty outdated considering I've installed the price check feature. Which u could see due to the date listed above as being updated. If u want more formidable updated pricing go to the price check option in the RAGETRADES CLASSIFIEDS LISTINGS